EPISODE 40 OF WHAT WOULD THEY DO? THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PODCAST FOR SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
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Today’s listener question: “I’m speaking to the right audience and I have a proven offer, but conversions in my launches have stalled. Where could the problem be?” In this episode, I’m joined by fellow copywriter and holistic launch strategist Laura Kendrick to unpack the hidden friction points that quietly tank conversions, even when your offer and audience are a match.
From treating your launch as a full marketing arc (not just cart open & cart close), to reading real-time audience signals, creating “spaciousness” in timing, and nurturing non-buyers without the ick, this episode gives you practical fixes you can implement before your next promo.
What we cover:
Holistic Launching (The Full Arc): Why effective launches start months earlier
Talk to People, Then Check the Data: How live voice-of-customer conversations surface what analytics can’t
Positioning vs. Demand: A real example where interest was high but response was low because positioning was slightly off
Spaciousness = Conversions: Building more time into your runway (and even into cart open)
After the Launch: How to debrief with your list, make non-buyers feel valued, and create simple two-way touchpoints
Soundbites:
Laura Kendrick: “What can I learn from this rather than let it crush you? That’s really the kind of the golden nugget that is this entrepreneurship thing. If you can take that as: “Okay, what happened here?” And also by the way, know that it has happened before. So you are not a total failure. The offer’s not bad. It’s just that something shifted and something didn’t align, and some simple tweaking might do the trick.”
Laura Kendrick: “I think I’m going to launch something next week. Except that’s not good for your nervous system. That is where we get into the very frenetic, stressed out containers that so many people experience in a launch. That is unnecessary. If you look at it in this wide space, then first of all, you have months to gear up for the next launch. You also get to sit from the perspective of ‘I’m in a relationship with these people’. It’s not just that a transaction of ‘I need all this money to come in now and I have five days to make it happen’. You have five months to meet folks, build relationships, set up the things that serve you, listen to them, and make adjustments.”
More about my guest, Laura Kendrick:
Laura Kendrick is a conversion strategist and copywriting co-conspirator for ambitious online business owners who want client-forward copy that actually sells—ethically, clearly, and with their personality fully intact.
She helps founders finally market their businesses in a way that makes sense and gets results. With a big-picture view and zero tolerance for one-size-fits-all formulas, Laura helps you clarify your message, sharpen your strategy, and create a brand voice that sounds like you (just… dialed all the way in). It’s about marketing that actually fits your business and your brain.
Website: https://www.cheekycopy.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cheekycopy/
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Episode Transcript:
Nadine Nethery (00:00)
Hello, hello and welcome back to the podcast. I am very excited about today’s guest. I recently spoke at her summit, which was super amazing, super fun. And yeah, we’ve been in each other’s orbits for quite some time. And when this particular question came up,
for an episode. I couldn’t think of anyone better to answer it than ⁓ today’s guests. So the question we’re looking at today is this one: I’m speaking to the right audience. I have a proven offer they want, but conversions in my launches have stalled. Sound familiar, right?
Where could the problem be? So to answer today’s question, I have invited the amazing Laura Kendrick. Laura is a fellow copywriter and shares a very similar approach to words where they’re part of a bigger picture of a strategic customer journey rather than considered in isolation. So Laura joins me today to unpack the possible friction points
that most launches miss and why the customer experience is your secret weapon in this particular process. So welcome to the show, Laura.
Laura Kendrick (01:12)
thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here.
Nadine Nethery (01:15)
Always good to chat to you. You know that? Yes. So I obviously know you, know what you do, but do you want to quickly give my listeners an overview of your genius and how you got to where you are today?
Laura Kendrick (01:17)
I know, I know.
my goodness, what a long circuitous road that would be. How many hours do you have? ⁓ No. The brief version of it is I fell into copywriting, honestly, because I fell into a different online business. I was a yoga teacher and I had a partner and we actually, I don’t know if you know this, we had an online yoga studio for a while and it was the copy that kept niggling at me. Like, you know, as you’re learning all the things to build this business,
That was the thing that I was like, this is so powerful. This is so interesting. I want to understand this. And then I started diving deep and then deeper and deeper and eventually found myself in pools that outside of being a copywriter, you had no business being in, right?
so I made it my business.
Nadine Nethery (02:18)
How good? Yes, started out of a need and it’s addictive, right?
Laura Kendrick (02:20)
Yeah, and it started, I started specializing in the launch world and then that evolved into, I really just loved web copy in general and that evolved into doing website copy and then I really fell in love with website copy, like truly heart-shattering love when I realized the process of the user experience.
And that really and truly that is filtering these kind of two great loves together. Almost this conversion launch mindset with your website and then the website shifts into something that actually converts and isn’t just a digital business card. And that is super fun.
Nadine Nethery (03:01)
Yeah, love it. Love your take on things because, you know, websites, I think often we look at websites as something completely different to launches and sales pages where in fact, you know, it’s the same thing. It’s the same mindset. You’re taking readers on a journey and it needs to be super strategic.
So let’s dive into this particular question today. So obviously there’s lots of aspects to it and we’re just going to come at it from various angles to hopefully give the listeners what they were after. So as I said, like me, you’re very big on holistic launching, holistic copy. So copy is part of the bigger picture. Can you share with me what your take on…
holistic in inverted commas is and what makes a launch feel holistic both for the business owner and the audience because that’s super important.
Laura Kendrick (03:57)
Yes, it is. I mean, I think this word first came to mind when I was thinking about this from that like yoga perspective that it’s we’re talking about all the bits and pieces working together. And I found, especially in the launch space, in both spaces, honestly, but in the launch space, too many people really look at a launch from the perspective of like cart open to cart close.
If we give them lots of grace or if you are in the camp where you have met, the lovely opportunity to have met and heard Brenna McGowan speak, then you, yes, yes. And she’s done a really great job of getting people to understand that pre-launch is a thing, like a real thing, a real strategic thing, not just a whisper of a, there’s something coming. Like you really have to get in there. But I…
Nadine Nethery (04:31)
⁓ Love, Brenna.
Laura Kendrick (04:48)
I think that’s even just, that’s a small view of it because it is truly a full marketing cycle. If you are launching, that is the trajectory of all of your marketing where, and I don’t mean this in you’re always trying to sell, it’s that you’re always aiming for the arc of that launch. So you have to think of those times in your marketing phase where you are growing
your audience, you’re bringing new people in in whatever capacity you do that, then you’re in that space where you’re getting to know each other. So they’re wondering, am I in the right space? Do I like this person? Is this like, are we talking the same language here? And you’re doing the same thing. You’re figuring out, especially if you have like a high ticket offer, you’re figuring out if you like them.
And then we start to tip into that pre-launch and launch space. And then I actually believe that there is a space of a post-launch where there needs to be. And this is not just the post-launch of where you look at your analytics and go, what happened here? What was great? What was bad? Yes, you need to do that too. But there’s a beautiful element in your marketing and in your user journey that needs to be honored in the few weeks after that cart closes before you
tip back into, okay, let’s grow the list again.
Nadine Nethery (06:07)
Absolutely. And then if you follow that arc, which is genius, genius way to describe it. If you follow that arc, feel also people don’t feel like a transaction, like they just were used and abused in your, you know, in your launch funnel, because there’s a whole bunch of emails coming at them, probably social media, they might see ads. So there’s this whole ecosystem of content and noise and just
continuing to take them on that journey after the launch is just acknowledging and respecting their time. They’ve just spent with you, even if they didn’t purchase, which, let’s face it, only a small percentage of people actually convert.
Laura Kendrick (06:33)
On the first arc, that’s the thing. There’s successive arcs. And if you just look at this crash, it’s a problem. That being said too, where it meets the business owner is if you’re looking at it in this gorgeous long spaced out kind of section of time, and especially if you have it mapped out over the year, like how many times do you launch in a year? Is it twice? Is it three times? Rather than, I can’t tell you how many times, and hey, look, I’ve done it too. Like we’ve all done it from a space.
space of scarcity or I have this genius idea where we’re like, I think I’m going to launch something next week. And yeah, except for that’s not good for your nervous system. That is where we get into the very frenetic, stressed out containers that so many people experience in a launch that is unnecessary. If you look at it in this wide space, then first of all, you have months to gear up for the next launch.
You also get to sit and from this perspective of I’m in a relationship with these people. It’s not just that transaction of I need all this money to come in now and I have five days to make it happen. It’s like, no, no, no, no. You have five months to meet folks, build relationships, set up the things that serve you, listen to them, and make adjustments. Like, mean,
Nadine Nethery (07:44)
I know. The magic of audience research and actually listening. It’s like, sounds so easy, so powerful. Yeah. You know, I’m like you obsessed with taking people on a, on a longer journey and totally accepting that the time might not have been right. The financial situation might not have been right this time around, but that doesn’t mean you’re not, you know, you’re not worthy to stay on my list, worthy to be in my orbit.
So super important to shift the perspective to, well, they didn’t buy, to, oh my God, they’re still here. They stayed for all the launch emails. They clearly are interested. Let’s just continue that journey with them and see what happens next time around. So when someone comes to you, reaches out to you going, Laura, oh my God, you need to help me. My launch is just not working. People are interested, but they’re…
for whatever reason not buying, what’s the first thing that you ⁓ look at in their funnel, in their launch experience overall?
Laura Kendrick (09:01)
Honestly, for me, because, and I know there’s gonna be a lot of people who wanna jump up and hit me for saying this, like, cause the numbers are so important and I do look at those, of course, but that’s not where I naturally gravitate to first. My first thought process is let’s talk to the people. Like what is, something has shifted here and let’s make sure that it’s in alignment. And yes, the numbers are going to help us suss out.
possibly what that is. But honestly, one of the most effective things can simply be asking people, just asking questions and then by the way, shutting up and listening.
Because so often
we just, and I mean, we all get caught in it. I will be doing voice to customer calls for clients and I’ll hear people, especially if they’re kind of like in the marketing space or the business space. And as I’m listening to their clients talk, like I have to fight every urge in my body not to coach them, not to be like, okay, well you could try this, you know? And it’s, I have to just sit back and be like, okay, I’m hearing a story, I’m hearing a story, this is great, this is great. And you just have to listen to their words and empathetically.
hear them and just digest them and allow them to speak. And honestly, there’s often so much gold in just listening to what’s going on. But also, yes, the data. The more data you have, the more we can actually figure out where were the holes? Where did we actually lose people? Where on your sales page with a heat map? Where did they stop scrolling to? ⁓ that’s interesting. But also the listening.
Because then you can kind of feel where that perhaps it was that particular headline, that particular piece, it’s just off a little bit. It’s not speaking to where your people are right this minute in this moment in history.
Nadine Nethery (10:57)
And the funny thing with politics, the world in general, what worked last time around might absolutely not hit the mark this time. That’s why it’s so important as you said, to have constant conversations with your audience rather than going, I do my yearly survey and we’re done. Actually listen, actually pay attention to shifts, even in the online space.
You know, people need to hear from you more often before they trust you because there’s just so much noise and things just shift constantly. yeah, definitely listening to your audience with intent, not just, for the sake of it. It does make a huge difference ⁓ So I’m always interested. You obviously have worked with a whole bunch of online business owners in the launch space and I love
real examples. So I wonder whether you can share an actual example where, people might’ve thought, I just don’t have enough traffic, ⁓ low demand is the problem, but the problem actually was somewhere else. Do you have some examples?
Laura Kendrick (12:00)
I actually have, it’s funny, you’re asking this question, I’m actually thinking of an example of my own that is really fascinating that this just happened. And I had a friend who pointed it out and was like, I hate saying this to a copywriter. I’m like, please, because we all get too close to our own crap. Please, say the thing. But it was something, was actually, you mentioned The Mixer Mind. It was something I posted in The Mixer Mind a while back, and it was so good. And everyone I talked to was like, this is…
so interesting and I’m really down for it. But the post itself, like the conversations I had with people moved like absolutely ran with things, but the post itself got like no traction. Like nobody responded to it. And I’m like, what went wrong here? And it was interesting. It was simply the positioning. I just had it in my own head of like, hey, we’re figuring this thing out together. Like my usual casual self.
as though I was talking to a group of friends and not thinking about it of the fact of this is actually a written word post in a pile of other written word posts. It needed to be positioned differently. I just, and it wasn’t, the offer was so good. The messaging was solid. It was the positioning of it. It was the, it was simply the way the ask was being put was just a little off kilter.
for that audience and when somebody pointed it out to me, I was like, damn.
Nadine Nethery (13:30)
Of course.
That’s where objective perspectives are so great, right? I feel often, we think we’ve got it all, we got it all sorted because it all makes sense, right? ⁓ I’ve fallen into that trap and then went, of course, of course it’s not selling because it doesn’t make sense to anyone but me. But yeah.
Laura Kendrick (13:36)
Yes!
I never think that.
Yeah,
right. Right. Or it’s simply, I think that’s a good example because it was that, probably that exact same wording would have worked really well with a different group of people. But given the group of people who is in here and their experience level and where they are in their journeys and how they see themselves in the online space, it just was just a little off where it was like, me, no. I don’t have time for that.
Nadine Nethery (14:25)
Crickets? No. Yeah, that’s where launching is so beautiful, isn’t it? There’s so many moving pieces and if one piece shifts or is off, it just can let down the whole funnel. my God, the beauty of launching.
Laura Kendrick (14:36)
Yeah, I think it also, like at the end of the day, when it comes to launching, my friend, Caryn Gillen, I think says it best, where she talks about having spaciousness. And the more space you can give it, the better it’s probably going to do. Certainly the better it’s going to feel. But it gives you time to be agile within the launch. It gives you time to be present.
and actually hear the things rather than, and I know the operations people will, this is gonna make their nervous systems like freak out, but it gives you the space to be like in real time versus having things just queued up in your ESP to send out emails and queued up in your social media scheduler and then they just go. Instead, you could actually be a little bit more present in that moment.
and kind of notice how people are reacting to things and then adjust from there. But you can’t do that if you’re crashing into it. If you’re already super stressed, if you are barely holding it together, it’s just not going to work.
Nadine Nethery (15:44)
I reckon your audience they vibe with it too. I think they pick up if you’re actually in the moment as much as you might’ve pre-scheduled part of the email. But if you’re actually responding to what’s going on in the launch process, it resonates much better. Like I love to incorporate even social proof of people joining my membership. For example, I did that in my ⁓ founding member launch. So had a super short intake survey as soon as they signed up and just asked a powerful question, you what made you join? What are you trying to achieve by being here? Yes. And then, you know, little screenshots in the email, like just giving people ideas around why others are joining the membership. And again, it’s, it’s live. It’s in the moment. People know people are actually joining. There’s that element of FOMO, which is genuine because people are joining. Things are happening.
So it absolutely pays off to ⁓ absolutely schedule and plan. I’ve healed your emails because as a control freak, I would freak out if I didn’t have anything ready to go. But like the bones, you can structure and prepare, but then absolutely, as you said, jump on those genius conversations you’re having with someone who was interested, for example, people who are joining. So incorporate that into your launch and your audience is going to feel the energy and also the vibe that you’re not stressed out and that you’re in control and it’s actually enjoyable.
Laura Kendrick (17:13)
This is. I hate to tell you that this will make your skin crawl probably. I actually have found more freedom in not scheduling anything anymore. I will occasionally schedule an email for two days from now or a day from now, but no further than that. If you go into my convert kit or kit, we say now, there is nothing queued up. There’s no drafts. There’s nothing. It’s just whenever I need to do it.
It’s interesting because the last summit I did is actually when I really let go of that. Not that I was like really scheduled out to within an inch of my life, but I finally just kind of was like, screw it. And I started and it was really fun because we were actually on vacation when we were doing it. So every morning I was waking up and I was popping up the app I use to write in and I was just venting stuff and then I was just editing it down and sending out the email that day. And they did really well. Like those emails did way better than, because of course I went in with a few scheduled, but then during that time I was like, I lost my creative jive somewhere in there and creating like, cause in a summit you’ve got like the emails for people who aren’t in, the people who are in, the people who have done this and done that. And it’s like, my God, there’s so many emails. But it was.
It was freeing to be able to respond in the moment to questions I was getting in my inbox. It was freeing to be able to give the social proof. It was also freeing and telling that I was commenting on things that were happening in real time in the world. So even if you didn’t know, like even if you were like, she could have done this ages ago, then something would pop up that had to do with like, you know, some movie was released or this actor said this thing or, something. And it was just,
Nadine Nethery (18:42)
Hmm. She’s actually here. She’s a person. She’s paying attention. I think even that is refreshing, right? Like going, it’s not chat GPT talking to me. My God. That’s the beauty. Again, I think so often we get told by various gurus and people and experts that you have to do it a certain way. See, like you have to work with your personality as well. So I’m totally panicking if I don’t at least half know what’s happening.
which is my German control freak. But for you, for example, if that stresses you out, the whole being organized and sometimes life just falls apart on you. So you have to be reactive and deal with it. But yeah, definitely bringing your personality into it and going with the flow. Absolutely no. And yeah, anyone telling you you have to do things a certain way. my God, run, run.
Laura Kendrick (19:53)
Yeah, there are no shoulds. Yeah, yeah, you gotta do it your way, yeah.
The only thing I’m telling you is just don’t crash into a launch, please. Whatever that means to you.
Nadine Nethery (20:05)
I think at least think about it. So have something, mapped out like some sort of arc, as you said, it can be totally vague, but as long as you know the journey you’re taking your audience on, that’s the main, the main part. Talking about arc and journey and emotions, lots of them in a launch. What do you do to pick up on your audience’s flow of energy in a launch. Like there’s that initial excitement and then that mid-lull usually where you go, my God, no one’s buying, what’s happening? So how do you try to structure launches in a way that potentially even works with that energetic flow?
Laura Kendrick (20:38)
Yeah, I think it comes down to understanding that no matter what you do, that is always going to happen. Because the two most powerful people, like if you think about your local gym, the biggest times of day where people show up at the gym are first thing in the morning. Those are like 5 a.m. or they are hardcore, right? They are there. Yes, yeah. And they’re the ones who are gonna show up seven days a week and they are there religiously.
Nadine Nethery (21:12)
That’s me.
Laura Kendrick (21:20)
And then there’s also the evening crowd. But if you go to the gym at like 2 p.m., there’s people there, but not a ton. You’re not waiting. You don’t have to actually abide by the like, can only use this treadmill for 30 minutes. That doesn’t matter because there’s nobody there. So use it for three hours if you want to be that person. But I think there’s a human element to that. And so that’s what we have. We have the people who are the A students and the people who are like, chomping at the bit who are like, oh, yeah, I’ve been waiting for this. And we’ve all been that person who’s been on the wait list. We genuinely signed up for a wait list because we actually wanted that thing. And here it comes. And yes, it’s my time. I’m getting in. Great. There’s a huge rush. And then there’s also the last minute people. And also the occasional, I have totally been this person where I have sent the big lie email where I just regret not doing it the next day and then being like, I was traveling.
I’ve done that.
They let you in most of the time.
But that is not, I haven’t done it a ton, but I have done it from time to time. If you get that email from me, know, hopefully I was traveling, but I might not have been. I might’ve just had like deep, deep regret. Right? But you have those last minute people who are, they’re just either weighing it out or they haven’t read their emails or they just kind of get that final like pressure point where they’re like,
Nadine Nethery (22:33)
well, one extra sale, I’m sure they’re happy. I’ll take it.
Laura Kendrick (22:50)
Okay, yes. All right, I’m going to do it.” And they run. And then there’s that middle where there’s, you know, it’s everybody else. It’s the 2PMers. It’s the people who are like, well, maybe I’ll go to the gym today. Maybe I won’t. Or I have things to think about or, you know, there’s various thought processes that are going on there. But if you can think about that knowing. So if you know, first of all, regulate yourself, you’re going have a big hit in the beginning and you’re going to have a probably, I should say, because not always.
And then it’s a huge letdown when everybody says, you have this big hit at the end and then you don’t. It’s like, ⁓ the you’re probably going to have a hit, not as big as the first one at the end, typically speaking. And then in the middle, you’ll get a trickle. And that trickle and it also depends on the offer, because if you have an offer that only needs like 10 people in it, then you got to think about that. you’re not going to see huge numbers of people coming in. But thinking about how can you
to energize the people in that middle space. And honestly, one of my favorite things is be you. Like, let your little freak flag fly. Like, step out of the kind of norm of things. But then we are also like, don’t forget there’s also like a psychological process of selling. And there is a reason why we send particular things at particular times.
because these are the things that people need to know. But hey, here’s the thing. If you don’t know what they need to know, ask them. Ask them. People love to be folded in. I actually ⁓ remember the days when I was in grad school and I was waiting tables. And I used to have to tell some of the other servers when we would get slammed, right? Everybody’s super busy.
People are having to wait an extra long time for like even the first step of getting a drink. And I would always tell them like, do you not notice that when you go to a table and tell them like, hey, look at the shit show I’m in right now. And like, I see you, I’m coming, I promise. Then you have these happy customers who are thrilled to be there. They feel like they’re a part of the chaos and they feel seen. They’re like, yeah, she’s got me. She’s not just ignoring me. She’s not just a terrible waitress. She’s busy.
pull their heads out of their own world and notice, and they feel like they’re a part of it. And that’s the thing, that same mentality works here too. If you ask them what they want, they feel like they’re a part of it, and then they’re bought in. They’re on the journey with you, they see what you’re doing, they’re like, ooh, this is a human. And so they’re more your friend than the transaction at the bottom of the balance sheet.
Nadine Nethery (25:31)
Communication, funny concept, isn’t it? Like two way, it shouldn’t be just you talking at them, actually talk with them. Yeah, it’s powerful. But sometimes I feel, again, we like to, as we said, schedule things in advance, be totally in control. And then that throws a curve ball, right? If people give you information, it’s like, what do I do with it? So it actually is beneficial. It can help you even, as we said, tweak those final emails, incorporate the little golden nuggets someone gave you. Like it’s super powerful.
Laura Kendrick (26:04)
I mean, maybe have that like compromise of they’re in your ESP as drafts and not quite scheduled so that you can just go in like, yes.
Nadine Nethery (26:09)
Mm. Yep. Yeah. They’re not set in concrete. It’s not, it’s not a like foundation for the house. It can evolve over time during the launch. I feel like sometimes newer launches, like people new to launching, maybe that gives them peace of mind as well. And with every launch, we learn stuff.
And we get new insights. That’s the beauty of it as well. Like you can’t rinse and repeat. every launch you tweak your funnel. You get better at it, I feel. And you become calmer because you just have seen it and you know how it works. So don’t stress if your first launch is not necessarily, you know, flying success.
Laura Kendrick (26:48)
Don’t stress if you’re… Yeah, and don’t stress if your 20th launch isn’t a flying success.
I actually had a client who had a launch, came to me afterwards, and very successful business owner, like pretty well known in our world. And she had a launch that zero people signed up for. And like, this was not normal. It went from pretty standard for her to nothing. And to take that…
and sit back with that and think to yourself, what can I learn from this rather than let it crush you? That’s really the kind of the golden nugget that is this entrepreneurship thing. If you can take that as a, okay, what happened here? And also by the way, know that it has happened before. So you are not a total failure. Your business is not like the offer’s not bad.
It’s just something shifted. Something shifted and something didn’t align. some simple tweaking might do the trick. Maybe it’s ⁓ time for a big change, but that’s a case-by-case basis assessment.
Nadine Nethery (27:43)
It’s good to see sometimes that even the big, the big experts who’ve been around for a while struggle as well. I was listening to Brenna McGowan’s podcast, which is brilliant by the way. Yesterday, I don’t know, she’s just clever. She actually was our guest expert in Retention Lab last month. So if you want to have a little bit of her genius, absolutely check it out.
Laura Kendrick (27:57)
What does she do that isn’t, by the way?
Nadine Nethery (28:19)
But yeah, so Brenna had Laura Belgray on who, know, for listeners who don’t know, like she’s royalty in the online space. And Laura was just ⁓ pretty much discussing what you just said, this successful ⁓ mastermind that had been selling super easy for years, sold really, really hard and slow. And ⁓ she basically decided to shut it down until working with Brenna on pre-sales and building that emotional arc that we just discussed and rather than just, you know, dumping it on people in the summer break, actually priming them, pre-selling, warming them up emotionally. So if Laura Belgray can get caught up in that cycle, yeah, don’t get disheartened if it happens to you.
Laura Kendrick (28:51)
I mean, that’s a really good reminder though too is sometimes we can, especially if you’ve been doing it for a while, you can get caught in the, people just know what this is, it’s fine. Like it’s well known, it’s gonna keep going. And that can trip you up that almost, I hate to say it, but it is kind of a little bit of ego kicking in. it isn’t like, yes, Laura Belgray email list is monstrous and she has unbelievable success behind her.
And if she’s running into, like, she’s, if anybody can sell on like, coattails alone, people like Laura Belgray are it. But it also, in some moments, it becomes harder when you kind of have almost, I feel like it may have, and I don’t know, I wasn’t on the inside of any of this, but it could have been like, kind of burned through that like, big loyal group who was going to do it at some point and just hadn’t kind of, what’s the, like, ramped people up, gotten people into the space where they were ready who weren’t part of that first big loyal group. And because that happens.
Nadine Nethery (30:02)
Absolutely. Complexities of online launching. Just a little bit of comfort for anyone who goes, my God, it’s so hard. Like it can happen to anyone. It’s how you deal with it that makes the difference. So before we wrap up, I just wanted to look at after the launch because, we don’t just launch, we touched on it before.
So what’s one practical thing that you do immediately after a launch to nurture your audience and particularly those who didn’t buy to make them feel valued? One to get started.
Laura Kendrick (30:43)
Just one? God, I hate it. ⁓ I mean,
because I do agree with the asking them if you have the ability or feel comfortable asking them why they didn’t buy is powerful to understand that so that you can kind of address that in the future and fold that into your messaging. But I also don’t feel like that makes people, that’s helpful for you, not so helpful for them.
I really love the idea of honestly folding them into the launch, sharing a bit about it not in a braggy way of like, especially if you’re business to business or if you’re not, if you are a business to customer, if they’re on a similar journey, like oftentimes people set up a business that is kind of to them a few years ago, a few steps back. And so sharing some insights of what it felt like for you, maybe emotionally or physically or kind of in whatever way you serve them. certainly tying it in because we don’t need to get into like, you know, the TMI of I’m a copywriter and I’m sitting here like, my God, my grass is so long, like who cares. But we can, it actually is, we need to mow it. folding it into like what
did that feel like for you? if you are a business to business, like sharing some of the wins and the losses, because that’s going to make them be like, oh, you’re human too. It’s going to, again, bring them into that. If we’re going back to that story in the bar, it is, they feel like they’re a part of it. So you have bred a little bit of loyalty, a little bit of a connection. They feel like they’re involved here and you can in those emails, like share, but then your call to action can be asking for them to answer a question or respond to you with something that gets the conversation going back and forth and not in a way that’s intended to sell, just in a way that’s intended to be like, hi, name an email that’s on my list. I don’t know who the heck you are. Can you like, let’s bring you out of the pile and let’s talk human to human because we are human.
Nadine Nethery (32:41)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Behind the scenes stuff works a treat. I think we’re all curious. not like I made five million, you know, like just even even talking about how the launch felt, you know. Well, I feel like it’s still it’s still around in some corners of the internet, like the whole I made seven figures in a month and you can too, if you follow my framework. So not in that kind of way.
Laura Kendrick (32:47)
but not like a jerk. That’s the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember that? my God, those screenshots. I’m so glad that fad has ticked away.
Nadine Nethery (33:08)
but in like an emotional, like it felt like this for me, even thanking like I have a habit of thanking people if they actually stay for the whole launch sequence, just acknowledging, like I know you didn’t join this time, totally fine, but thanks for sticking around. I really appreciate you. Little PS like that just works a treat. Just acknowledging like, mm.
Laura Kendrick (33:11)
Yeah. Sometimes giving them a treat if they do that, like a little into even just like a lead magnet you have hiding somewhere or some. I have seen some folks who have smaller audiences will do some form of like a call or something. You know what I mean? Like they’ll gift them some kind of access point, which creates a little bit more of that community sensation as well.
Nadine Nethery (33:41)
And again, looking after your, your biggest fans, the people who clicked a whole bunch of time on the sales page, clearly interested, clearly not the right time or, you know, financial situation. Hmm.
Laura Kendrick (33:55)
And remember, yeah, remember that even if they never buy from you, they could be somewhere in the background being your biggest cheerleader. So, you you’re putting that good karma out into the universe of supporting somebody and people will support you back.
Nadine Nethery (34:11)
Exactly. Yeah. Absolutely. On that note, I want to leave people with something they can do today. So if they’re planning their next launch, what is one low effort but high impact tweak or strategy that they can incorporate into their launch funnel or into their launch process overall that can instantly remove friction. What would you say?
Laura Kendrick (34:44)
That is, I think, adding more space in some capacity. And whatever that means to you, adding that spaciousness. Maybe it’s that the carts open a little longer or a lot longer. I don’t know. That depends on you and your audience. Maybe it’s about instead of crashing in next month being like, okay, let’s do a little bit more lead time and maybe join that bundle or that summit or push my lead magnet for a while and try and grow my list a little bit longer before I go into this, maybe it’s actually sitting down and mapping out like an arc so that you feel that. However that feels to you, folding in just a little bit more spaciousness is like, Karin giving me that word for a launch has been like the greatest gift when it comes to launching. And I wanna share that with you because I think that that will not only calm your nervous system, which by the way, people can feel even through an email.
And it makes it so that your audience has space to breathe and absorb and like they’ll feel it too. And they’ll be grateful for it because yeah, we got a lot on our plates and everybody’s feeling the weight of the world these days. So.
Nadine Nethery (35:52)
Yeah, we can all do with spaciousness, not only in launching, my god, all the spaciousness. But yeah, love it. What a good way to wrap up this episode. All about spaciousness, really being forgiving with yourself in the process as well. And I feel listening to your audience and having a two way conversation rather than ⁓ talking at them. So many golden nuggets.
Laura, before I actually wrap up, I’ve been saying this three times, think. Last question, promise. This is one question I ask all my guests. If you could ask one person, one expert a particular burning question you have about the customer experience, the customer journey in general, what would that question be?
Laura Kendrick (36:38)
Here’s the thing. I am a, and I fought this for years because so many people told me like, you can’t be this way. I am an over giver and I like being an over giver. And I finally stood into my own way of, you can’t tell me not to be an over giver. So, that is a hard thing to, the bigger your audience gets, the more clients you have, it gets harder and harder and harder to be able to like, give and have these dialogues. And so I think for me, it would be, how do you maintain these really warm, amazing customer experiences and just all the things without losing your mind in your inbox? Or in general? Yes.
Nadine Nethery (37:23)
Without losing sanity. Right. Yeah. Yes.
Great question. Let me sit on that and see who I can invite to answer it for you. My listeners, I’m sure, are going to want to check you out and connect with you online. What’s the best way for them to track you down?
Laura Kendrick (37:30)
Yes. Well, I’m at cheekycopy.co is where you can find my website. And hopefully by the time this launches, I have updated that because it desperately needs it. And I am at, cheekycopy on Instagram.
Nadine Nethery (37:51)
Awesome. So go and check Laura out, send her a DM because there was so many amazing nuggets in this one. So many good, refreshing angles on launching and copy and doing it in a way that doesn’t burn you out. So if you also have a burning custom experience question, you know the drill, you can submit it via the link in the show notes. You can do so anonymously or you can get a little shout out on a future episode.
Laura Kendrick (38:04)
would love that.
Nadine Nethery (38:26)
If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with anyone who might be remotely interested and subscribe, leave a review and thanks so much for tuning in. I’ll see you next week.
