EPISODE 68 OF WHAT WOULD THEY DO? THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PODCAST FOR SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
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What if retention wasn’t about luck, but about how you design your offer from the very beginning?
In this episode, I’m joined by neuropsychologist and systems strategist Dr. Tiffany Shelton, who has built a program with a 95% retention rate (yes, let that number sink in!).
Together, we explore how pricing, psychology, and customer experience work together to create long-term client relationships that actually last.
Spoiler:
People don’t stay because your content is good. They stay because your entire experience is designed for them to succeed.
What we cover:
How pricing impacts behaviour, commitment, and results
The concept of “skin in the game” (and why it matters more than you think)
Why long-term commitment models can increase retention
The role of psychology in consistency and follow-through
Why calling in the right people matters more than calling in more people
Soundbites:
“The first 90 days of that program is where I’m really hands on, I’m wrapping around the person to make sure they learn the systems that I give them and personalize them for their life. They’re also going through the coursework in that first 90 days and submitting it to me for personalized feedback. So during that first 90 days, I’m really all up in their business to make sure you learn these systems and you tailor them and build them in your life. And we’re kind of fixing anything that doesn’t work.”
More about my guest, Dr. Tiffany Shelton:
Dr. Tiffany Shelton is a published author and neuropsychologist. She has worked with dozens of ambitious women to turn their dreams into reality using her proprietary Impossible to Fail Method and she’s spent over a decade sharing how to create a sustainable hustle using evidence based psychology, systems, and alignment. She shares her insights on how to reach systemize your goals on her YouTube channel with over 41,000 subscribers and has been featured in by many media outlets, including Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease and Rockridge Press.
Grab her Systems Check Checklist: https://www.modambition.com/pages/success-systems-checklist
Meet Tiffany on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TiffanyShelton
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Episode Transcript:
Nadine Nethery (00:00)
Hello, hello and welcome back to the podcast. For today’s episode, I have invited someone who has taken what most people treat as a messy, emotional, hope they stick around process and turned it into something far more intentional. Dr. Tiffany Shelton designed systems that are grounded in achievement psychology.
Tiffany (00:13)
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (00:23)
and that help people follow through, stay consistent and actually see results over time. And not surprisingly, her current retention rates, sits at 95 % mind blowing. So today we are pulling back the curtain on what that actually looks like behind the scenes in her business and how pricing systems and customer experience come together to make long-term retention feel a
Tiffany (00:35)
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (00:51)
whole lot less like luck and a lot more like intentional design. Welcome to the show, Tiffany.
Tiffany (00:58)
Thank you so much. So excited to be here.
Nadine Nethery (01:00)
So good to have you. I’m always fascinated with business owners who have managed to achieve such incredible retention rates Clearly you’re doing a lot of things right. And yeah, I can’t wait to dig into what that looks like in your business and yeah, in your program. But before we get started, I would love you to introduce yourself to the listeners, give them a bit of an idea of, how you…
Tiffany (01:11)
Drank.
Nadine Nethery (01:23)
got started, how you ended up where you are today and how you support your customers.
Tiffany (01:29)
Yeah, so I’m a neuropsychologist, I guess by trade and did.
therapy and neuropsychology assessment for many, many years and still continue to do some consulting on the neuropsych side of me, I guess. But I’ve translated that into my passion, which is coaching high achieving women to reclaim their time, do less and achieve more with systems. So I’m a big proponent of helping women, especially high achieving women like business owners and, you know, executives really
clear the chaos in their life and in their mind so that they can have more white space and really answer their higher calling. So the outcome is a little bit woo woo in the sense that white space and higher calling, but what I teach is very practical systems and helping people get more focused, more organized and more productive, largely for like ambitious women. Yes.
Nadine Nethery (02:25)
Love it. I’m so needed. I feel like there’s not
much white space going on up here. Mom of three, business owner, too many things, too many hats. So yeah, super fascinating. Before we get stuck into the retention and customer experience things, I’m curious, does that involve a lot of AI seeing that we’re in
Tiffany (02:45)
Not necessarily what I teach. It’s a component of how I teach those. So like each lesson in my program, as people are working through it, has a AI bot that’s been trained by me to go through it. But the actual systems for AI, we talk through like personal and we probably will talk about that in the how I personalize my work with them because I have
Nadine Nethery (02:44)
yep.
Hmm?
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Tiffany (03:08)
both business women and career women. So we talk about that in their workflow systems, but it’s largely a higher picture versus like technical AI things. Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (03:17)
Yeah, just interesting
because I feel like nowadays the default solution is, well, I’m overwhelmed. I have no white space. Let’s just throw things at AI. So I love that you’re using AI to help them work through, you know, the bigger picture rather than replacing everything and just trying to sort the chaos simply via resorting to AI and panicking. So
Tiffany (03:28)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (03:40)
Your program, I’m so fascinated here, 95 % retention rates. I wonder what you put that down to. I’m sure it’s a combination of things. So what’s your take on 95 %? How did you get there? How do you sustain it?
Tiffany (03:53)
Yeah.
I think largely it’s a result of the way the entry into the program is and the pricing structure of the program, which I think we’ll be talking about. And it’s every system, including the pricing structure and like retention things I have built in, is built around this being my life’s work and like my heart’s work. So.
I think people coming into the program and within the program know that I’m not here to just get them in and then like systemize everything or pass them to another coach or answer every question with AI. I’m really like, this is my work and I’m going to be in it with them. And I think that’s a felt experience for the people that are a fit for.
the program. I think largely like higher picture, even the way I have all the pricing and the structure of the program is largely around like this is my heart’s work and I want to make sure if you’re coming into my world you’re getting a result and I am kind of obsessively tied to you getting your investments worth when you come into my world.
Nadine Nethery (05:01)
Hmm.
So, you basically are positioning the program as something long-term right from the get-go, how you’re talking about it. attracting people that come into it with that long-term mindset rather than, those, those members that go, I’m just going to swipe everything and leave in two months time. Yeah. Can you go a bit more into the way you price your program? Because I know, ⁓ you know, it’s a, it’s a big part of your strategy.
Tiffany (05:07)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. So it’s tied together pricing and timing. So I talk about timing and pricing together as I like.
offer the program to potential folks that come into my world. So there’s three timeframes that I talk about. There’s the first 90 days, which is what I call the seed portion of our membership. And then there’s the ongoing quarters after the 90 days, which I call the flower portion of our membership. So the third time frame is just like all of that together, the year. There is a one year commitment when coming into the program, simply because I need enough time. Again, this is my life’s work to make sure you’re just not getting like an on demand course.
and trying to do it by yourself and like, it doesn’t stick, giving me enough time to make sure that this stuff sticks and troubleshooting anything that gets in the way. So I like to explain it like if you were to go to a personal trainer and just tell them you want one or two sessions, they probably tell you no, because you need more than one or two sessions, unfortunately, to see like good results, you need.
Nadine Nethery (06:21)
you
Tiffany (06:28)
consistency over time to see real transformation. And also it’s a lifestyle change, not to grab too much from the fitness culture, but it’s not like a quick diet. It really is a lifestyle change. So that’s what the one year commitment is about, giving us both enough time to make sure it works.
Nadine Nethery (06:39)
Mmm.
Tiffany (06:44)
And then the first 90 days of that program is where I’m really hands on, I’m wrapping around the person that comes in to make sure that they build, learn the systems that I give them and build them and personalize them for their life. So that’s where they’ll get their two one-to-one calls with me, where we do a deep dive in tailoring the strategies for them. They also, throughout the program, they have like a one-to-one form with me that I’m touching base with them each and every week. And only me and them can see that in a personalized
They’re also going through all the coursework to me, going through the coursework in that first 90 days and submitting it to me for personalized feedback on each one of their systems. I answer within 24 hours for any questions that they have. They have direct access to me via DM. So that first 90 days, I’m really like all up in their business to make sure you learn these systems and you tailor them and build them in your life. And we’re kind of fixing anything that doesn’t work.
So that’s the seed portion. And then after the first quarter, they move into the flower portion, those ongoing quarters, which is just about ongoing support. They continue to get our weekly accountability group meetings or co-working sessions, the one-to-one forum and support in the community. But it’s more about like troubleshooting any problems, making sure they’re sticking to what they built in the first 90 days.
So because there is a higher lift in that first 90 days, just like a seed getting off the ground, I’m pouring more into them, there is a higher initial setup fee. So to get started, the cost to get started is 5,400 for that first quarter, and then it goes to 300 per quarter thereafter.
Nadine Nethery (08:21)
Hmm.
Tiffany (08:21)
So
they’re really buying in in those first 90 days, me and them, to make sure that they’re getting the most of their investment. And that’s where most of the transformation is happening. And then when they become a flower, they’re just thriving and making sure that they continue to thrive. So it’s quarterly pricing with a one year commitment. And then obviously you can see how timing is tied to that as well.
Nadine Nethery (08:28)
.
Hmm, that is so smart because you’re setting up people to succeed right from the get go. ⁓ Plus people who have skin in the game, obviously that bigger investment in the first quarter are going to show up more. They’re going to be doing the work. yeah, such an interesting model.
Tiffany (08:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, and people
do have the option to pay monthly if that’s something you want to do, but there still is that higher initial setup fee. So the first three months are at a higher rate, basically like the quarterly rate broken down for the seed, and then they go into like $125 a month, but it still has that same psychological effect that this first part, you have skin in the game and we’re going to do the work. And I want you to feel that as you’re coming in.
Nadine Nethery (09:05)
Mm. Yeah.
Mmm. Mmm.
Yeah, I love that. Plus you get people who are actually ready to do the work, right? If you’re investing a considerable amount of money over the next quarter, you are going to do the work. Have you always started, like have you always had this model or is this something that you worked out down the track when you noticed there was something not quite working?
Tiffany (09:33)
Right.
Number two, yes. Yeah, so when
I first started out, so this has been the last two years and the retention rate has been with this last two years that I speak of. But before that, I would allow to break up my high ticket program over the year. So it would be a much more affordable, but then you call in people that
Nadine Nethery (09:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Tiffany (10:09)
their skin in the game is, even though they’re paying the same amount, it’s psychologically a human thing. The skin in the game is based on that month, that first month’s payment, which is significantly lower divided by 12 versus like the three. So this is something I’ve had to work up to and use some creative thinking to figure out the psychological pieces, but it’s been a trial and iteration.
Nadine Nethery (10:12)
Mmm.
Yeah.
It’s
so interesting because in episode 62, a few weeks ago, I talked with Jasmine Parasram, who’s a pricing strategist for creatives and service providers. And we were diving deep into, you know, the psychological effects of your pricing and the type of people it affects and the skin in the game. So listeners, if you missed episode 62, make sure you listen because it really connects nicely.
Tiffany (10:50)
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Nadine Nethery (11:01)
with
this, know, memberships work exactly the same. Your pricing and the way you package it and commitment periods really impact how people are showing up, what type of people you attract and the results you’re getting them as well. And something from my membership as well. So I don’t currently have a set up like you, but I’m very intrigued. But I have two tiers for example, as well. So my lower tier is more self-guided.
Tiffany (11:12)
Yes.
Okay.
Nadine Nethery (11:26)
has limited one-on-one access to me. They can sign up monthly or six monthly, and then I have a higher tier, which gets monthly one-on-one access to me. Voxer, so interesting also again, from that skin in the game perspective, the people in that higher tier stick around for longer, simply because they’re getting wins, they’re getting results, they have skin in the game, so they’re doing the work and they’re submitting. So definitely if you have a membership.
Tiffany (11:42)
Hmm.
Mm.
Nadine Nethery (11:50)
make sure you put some thought into it. A lower price is not necessarily always the best solution and doesn’t necessarily make you more money long term. So attracting the people that have skin in the game, that understand the outcome and the cost of not acting can be much more rewarding in the long run.
Tiffany (12:11)
Yeah, yeah. And I used to offer this program as on demand. And that was the exact reason that I switched. It’s like to see on the back end that people are getting something you put your heart into and not finishing it was so hard for me. And so it’s interesting to see exactly what you said then. Once people have more skin in the game, more support, they’re finishing it, they’re getting better results. So with the same exact material, yeah.
Nadine Nethery (12:15)
Mmm. Mmm.
Yes.
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But I
love your analytical approach to memberships. You know, like it’s easy to just follow everyone’s advice out there. When it comes to open, closed memberships, launching, like there’s all this advice out there, but ultimately you need to look at what works for you, what gets your people the best results. And your membership can be totally designed around how you work best and your members as well.
Tiffany (12:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (13:01)
So cool.
Yeah, I need to, I need to think about this because I’m super intrigued with your model. So cool.
Tiffany (13:05)
And I will
say on your note about the people it attracts, find, because I’m very geek out about messaging as well, I speak to ambitious women, but there’s a spectrum within ambitious women. And I speak to a very particular type of ambitious women. She’s like highly motivated. She’s over worker, over achiever.
Nadine Nethery (13:08)
Hmm?
Yeah.
Tiffany (13:25)
over-functioning versus there’s also an ambitious woman who struggles maybe with motivation and initiation and getting things going. And the way that I have it structured now attracts more of that ideal person that’s ready to do the work versus…
Nadine Nethery (13:38)
Mmm.
Tiffany (13:40)
when you’re kind of more in like fight or flight or survival mode, but you’re still highly ambitious, you may not be prepared to make that type of investment and do that type of work. So it kind of reflects where you are as far as like capacity as well.
Nadine Nethery (13:55)
So
clever to hone in on your messaging. you know your people best, you know who gets the best results. So being crystal clear on your sales page is just such a smart move. Now, I would love to move on to your customer journey and customer experience. We talked about that seed quarter, that initial quarter and the high touch experience there, and then how it evolves over time. So,
Tiffany (14:00)
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (14:16)
If you were to look at your customer journey, so from first point of contact, I know you’re super successful on YouTube, for example, through to a year and beyond as your customer, at what point on the customer journey would you say customer retention actually begins?
Tiffany (14:31)
I’d say in the messaging in the very beginning. Although I think it’s the whole, it begins in that initial point, but I’m also…
Nadine Nethery (14:33)
Hmm.
Tiffany (14:40)
So I’m thinking about retention in that initial point, but I’m also thinking about marketing once they’re in the program. Like I don’t want to stop marketing to my person once they’re in the program, which I think has been a mistake of mine in the past. It’s like you think about all your marketing for attracting people into your world, but then when they’re in, you’re like, okay, I got them. And kind of just like delivering. I still do a lot of work on the marketing side to my actual clients, as far as the flows that they receive, the emails they receive.
Nadine Nethery (14:49)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Tiffany (15:09)
that I speak to them as far as retention. My person struggles with overwhelm, which you could see probably gets in the way of program progress and outcomes. So I do a lot of work on overwhelm and beliefs and mindset shifts that are needed on the other side of just once you’re in to believe and continue to do the work. But I think that it
Nadine Nethery (15:18)
Yeah.
Tiffany (15:30)
to your question of where it starts would largely be in my messaging. Particularly on YouTube, there’s a few ways you can get that in. It’s your thumbnail, your title, and your introduction. And I’m always trying to weed out to the point people get upset and write in my comments, well, why aren’t you talking to me? Why can’t men? Why aren’t I’m ambitious about a man or I’m not a type A?
you know, high achieving woman, like people get upset, but I’m really calling in like the type of person that I want because those are the people why that stay. So when I think about the five percent that I agonize about late at night that have left, they have been women that are ambitious, beautiful, intelligent women, but they’re not my specific type of high achieving woman. And
Nadine Nethery (16:00)
Mm.
Mmm.
Tiffany (16:19)
they all fit into that category of like not exactly the right fit. So for me, I’ve learned it has to start at like the targeting point, making it crystal clear who this is for. So I’m calling in the first place, the right type of person.
Nadine Nethery (16:31)
Mm.
I totally agree. It sort of starts with that first click, right? The first engagement, the first social media post they see the first YouTube video and then after that, it’s almost like, love at first sight, you still need to work hard to keep people engaged, you need to look after them, you need to show up for them. And you need to still work out and show to them that you’re
Tiffany (16:48)
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (16:56)
You know, you are the right fit. So I totally agree. You know, that cohesive customer journey from that first point of contact is the basis to long-term customer retention and coming to your point of onboarding and not forgetting about people who signed up to your program. I, in my membership as well, have started with the assumption that people are going to be around for at least a year. ⁓
Tiffany (16:57)
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (17:19)
So my onboarding sequence is 12 months at this point in time. It’s very strategic touch points. It just means that beyond the one-on-one interactions that I have with people in the community and via live events every month, there are those interactions and check-ins that happen automatically. So I don’t forget, they don’t fall through the cracks and people
Tiffany (17:23)
Brilliant.
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (17:40)
feel like they’re on this journey that keeps going, keeps evolving, you these little surprises, bonuses along the way. And those check-ins add the right points when people tend to start dropping off, they tend to feel overwhelmed and they tend to stop taking action. start with the assumption that people are going to stick with you for a long time and then design your customer journey based on that assumption. Yeah.
Tiffany (17:48)
beautiful.
yeah,
so smart.
Nadine Nethery (18:04)
On your ⁓
customer journey and in your onboarding experience, are there some sort of call out moments, critical moments that you have intentionally designed to make sure people feel really looked after? Are there some that stand out to you?
Tiffany (18:21)
I tried to infuse that in everything, but particularly, think my onboarding course, which I think…
on most people have or lots of people have in their membership. So we do onboarding calls and our onboarding sort of like orientation, those kinds of things. But I have a particular before they can even start like diving into the coursework and onboarding segment that really speaks to the mindset shifts that are needed to be successful in the program. So for my people, it’s slow down to speed up. So that’s something that we really have because we’re on go go
Nadine Nethery (18:32)
Mm.
Tiffany (18:57)
⁓ We don’t want to slow down to build systems and that’s something I have to fight. Quick and dirty, fighting perfectionism and making sure to get the tools to be a recovering perfectionist as many of the women I work with are. But I think…
Nadine Nethery (18:57)
Mmm.
Tiffany (19:12)
Part of that is just making them feel seen and letting them know it’s like normalizing, like the overwhelm of joining something new and starting something new, making a high investment and some of the pitfalls that kind of get in our way. So I like to…
I like to make sure that they do that before they even get started. I also give them like a quick win at the beginning. ⁓ That’s a bonus. It’s a buy back their time blueprint. So it helps them get 10 hours back in the first week of joining my program. So they actually have the time to do it and create that space and get a little taste of like some of the systems to come. Because it is a year long program, I don’t want them to feel like they have to wait super long or even three months to feel like they are successful.
Nadine Nethery (19:36)
Mmm.
Mm.
Tiffany (19:58)
because then it’s kind of like more daunting than fun. Yeah. And then I focus a lot on like the habits to instill and like the practice of like building these systems and living with these systems more so than I do just like the final end point. Like you’re going to have this perfect systems and everything’s just going to be perfect all the time and more like focusing on like what are the habits I want you to leave me with and like how can we make sure that even if you stray like
Nadine Nethery (20:00)
Yeah.
Tiffany (20:26)
in meditation you bring yourself back versus like trying to like do everything so perfectly.
Nadine Nethery (20:27)
Mmm.
Yeah, I love the quick win at the beginning. It’s so important, right? Especially in a 12 months commitment where you go, my God, is it actually 12 months until I see results? And giving them that quick win right from the get go is so clever because again, it reinforces that this chunk they’ve just paid at the beginning is so worth their time, right? And it just reinforces, I made the right decision and it just really excites them.
Tiffany (20:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, induable.
Nadine Nethery (20:59)
for what’s ahead. So cool. Have you systemized all of your customer experience? Or not all of it, but you know, like sort of the backend, that’s not one-on-one interaction with you.
Tiffany (20:59)
Mm-hmm.
I’ve tried to do a lot of systemizing. don’t know. I think I still have some optimizing to do, but I have a lot of, mean, part of it is also because I don’t want to systemize everything. Like the one-to-one aspect of my program is really important. ⁓ just myself being a program and membership.
Nadine Nethery (21:13)
Hmm?
Yeah.
Hmm?
Yeah.
Tiffany (21:31)
course junkie. There’s some experiences that I’ve had that I felt too automated that I have some fears around. But at the same time, there’s only one of me and I need to make sure that people are still getting what they came for. Even if my capacity is, you know, human capacity. So I’ve tried to like we have weekly, a system of weekly calls and
Nadine Nethery (21:38)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Eeyah.
Tiffany (21:55)
group calls and Q &A to make sure like there’s still like that aspect even between their one-to-one calls with me. But like the flows that they get to book things are all automated. They can go through the coursework on their own time that’s automated. I think a lot of the other aspects outside of like the one-to-one time with me I try to put in some sort of like system even if it’s not
Nadine Nethery (22:10)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Tiffany (22:19)
automated, but like with my team. Yeah. Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (22:21)
It helps, right? I feel like it’s like, at least you
know, it’s taken care of. Yeah. It’s so hard to balance that element of automation with how much you’re going to do manually one-on-one. And again, there’s no right or wrong answer. So it’s, it’s such a hard jungle, like same here. I automate the things that just need to happen on the backend. And then I feel the moments that
Tiffany (22:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (22:49)
really matter on their customer journey, I try to do manually, whether it’s a personal video message or, you know, for example, a check-in after they’ve just renewed things like that, that I feel deserve a personal touch point, even on the lower plan where it might feel like, well, I’m just a number in the system. So yeah, it’s an ever evolving
Tiffany (22:59)
Thanks.
Mm-hmm.
the system that does help me a little bit with that, like balance it is because that first 90 days is when the person gets their one to one calls and all the hands on stuff. I open doors or launch once a quarter. So I do those like in chunks. And so I get these seeds off the ground. And so I’m able to focus on them. And then once they’re kind of like,
Nadine Nethery (23:22)
Mmm. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Tiffany (23:37)
flowers and thriving, then I can focus on the next one. kind of like the timing helps a little bit with that too.
Nadine Nethery (23:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, that’s smart. Again, like you just make sure there’s no overwhelm happening in tag at a time, but I shouldn’t be surprised. You know, you’re helping people. People be more organized. So I’m not surprised here. goodness. Yeah, I’m wondering, because as I said, I feel like my onboarding processes, my membership keeps evolving all the time based on feedback I get from my members and little comments that they drop here and there. Do you have a process for
Tiffany (23:48)
Yeah, little chunks.
That looks fancy.
Nadine Nethery (24:10)
gathering sort of member feedback so you can keep evolving that process and make it even better.
Tiffany (24:17)
Yes. So within their onboarding and their whole flow over the years, they’re sent monthly emails to fill out a results tracker. So within that results tracker, I’m getting their wins, their progress, but I’m also getting feedback of what they would like to have improved.
Nadine Nethery (24:26)
Hmm?
Tiffany (24:35)
They have been very helpful on both ends of wins, but also how I could improve the program for other women and for themselves of still being in the program. So that’s a really big system that helps. I’m also encouraging them to add in their wins and challenges into the community in every lesson that they watch. There’s a prompt for them to let me know in Mighty Networks what their progress is, their systems, or any questions that they have.
Nadine Nethery (24:37)
Mmm.
Tiffany (25:01)
And then quarterly, I do innovation. So that’s like my innovation system to the program. like usually after launch month when things are calmed down, I do my innovations and I’ll go to the community and say, I’m about to make updates to the course and to the program. What would you like to see change? What would you like to see better? And I do as much as I can in that innovation month. And then anything that didn’t make it, like I have one thing that I have to do this quarter.
Nadine Nethery (25:05)
Mm.
Mmm.
Tiffany (25:28)
I do the next innovation round, it’s a very known part of the program that it’s living and breathing and I’m always trying to make it better. And obviously I have a system to periodically implement what they’ve given me.
Nadine Nethery (25:34)
Hmm.
Yeah, but I’m sure your members would absolutely appreciate that and feel like they’re part of the process. Yeah. Yeah. Some of my customers, my clients, one-on-one clients, when we start with a customer survey, feel like it’s a somewhat confronting process, having that, that feedback and the raw and honest opinion from members. But I absolutely love it as much as sometimes you go, you know,
Tiffany (25:47)
Right, building it. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (26:08)
like it hurts or it stings
a little. And then when you step back and look at it and you go, actually that makes total sense. Like it could be so much easier or this makes everything so much better. inviting feedback I found in my membership, but also, you know, my clients businesses has made such a huge impact on retention, even on offer design. It just means you’re moving with the times and supporting your clients in the best way possible. So.
Tiffany (26:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, and because
we know our subjects so well, some things are just like obvious to us that we wouldn’t even think to put in. Like I had someone ask, well, can you put like an example on how you would add this to each thing to lessen, like how you would add it in your project management software? And I’m like, obviously, like, why didn’t I put that in the first place? Like, where would I put this in Notion? Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (26:36)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It’s the little things, seemingly little things that can make all the difference. It’s memberships, you like you get sold into this easy way to make recurring revenue. But I feel if you want to do it properly, it is a process that you can totally get sucked into, but it’s so worth it. In the end, as we can see here, 95 % retention rates. Yeah, so cool.
Tiffany (27:02)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (27:25)
On the flip side, mean, hopefully you will never have to face this, but where would you start if you started to see your retention rate drop all of a sudden?
Tiffany (27:36)
I think I would go back to the marketing attraction side first. That would be my first, but then on the customer side, I would probably dive into interviews with people that have left. Like, gotta get you on the phone. Let’s figure this out because obviously that would be a change for me that I would be like, what is going on now?
Nadine Nethery (27:42)
Hmm?
Mmm.
Yeah.
Tiffany (27:59)
But if I thought about the people that left, it historically has been a marketing messaging fit problem. And I would probably go back to like, okay, what are the most viral videos that I’ve been doing or ads or whatever the case may be? And are they always calling in the wrong type of person? Like I just had a video not too long ago, go, did pretty well, but it wasn’t.
Nadine Nethery (28:04)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Tiffany (28:21)
exactly that. I mean, amongst the larger like amount of viewers, my people were in there, but it also called in a lot of different people. So I don’t want too many of those types of videos or ads or whatever the case may be. Because for me, historically, that’s where the root of the problem has been.
Nadine Nethery (28:28)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, so clever because it’s easy to panic, right? It’s like the things, the system is broken. I need to change something about the onboarding delivery. We need to shake things up when often, as you said, you’re just calling in the wrong people for some reason. The person wasn’t the right fit. being again, calm, analytical and looking at your messaging, is it speaking to the right person? Yeah, so good.
Tiffany (28:43)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I also like
to be really clear about the expectations before people come in. So there’s no like, well, this isn’t what I wanted. Like, it’s very laid out before folks join what this is and what it isn’t. Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (29:09)
Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, being really clear in your messaging and transparent about expectations. ⁓ So important rather than overselling. Like there’s nothing worse than you 10 times your investment, you do this, all these promises that maybe one member achieved. And it’s totally, based on parameters that aren’t necessarily the reality for 99 % of your members. So being transparent.
Tiffany (29:25)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (29:43)
And what has helped me, is being available for questions beforehand. So on my sales page, for example, I have a video ask pop-up where people, if they have any doubts, can go back and forth with me and I answer questions. So, you know, if they’re that close to signing up, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s like a little pop-up on my sales page where I recorded a little video, just normalizing that signing up to a…
Tiffany (29:47)
Hmm.
wow.
Is it really you? Oh wow.
Nadine Nethery (30:07)
program to a membership, like it’s a big deal. You want to make sure it’s the right fit for you. So if they have anything that they’re wondering about, anything I haven’t covered to send me a message and they can record a video, they can send me a text message and it yeah, arrives back. So in my last launch, for example, there were some people interested in that higher tier and they just wanted to make sure it’s the right fit for them.
And we worked out that it wasn’t the right time for them because they just hadn’t had the right pieces in place that make sure they get the most out of the membership. But yeah, It’s embedded on the website and it doesn’t get a whole heap of interactions, but the interactions from it are priceless because either people join after.
confirming, yes, you’re the right fit. Or they don’t join this time around, but then join next time when they go, Nadine, I’ve got my ducks in a row, I’m ready. So it is definitely worth it. And you’re creating those one-on-one interactions. So yeah, easy, totally low lift, but highly effective. All right, I love this. Such a good chat.
Tiffany (30:49)
Right.
yeah, that’s so smart.
Nadine Nethery (31:10)
so many takeaways. feel the big one is design your membership pricing in a way that works for you, but also works for your people and means they are getting results, which then means they’re sticking around. Definitely treat your retention strategies as part of your messaging because attracting the right people means they are likely to stick around because they’re getting results and yeah, not to panic.
Tiffany (31:10)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Nadine Nethery (31:35)
when things fall apart. again, sense checking the moving pieces, who actually joined, were they the right fit and yeah, what might need fixing in the early stages of that customer journey before pulling everything apart. Yeah, so good. Obviously, you know, starting point, we could talk for hours, what’s one burning customer experience question you have?
Tiffany (31:47)
Right, right.
Nadine Nethery (31:56)
right now.
Tiffany (31:57)
Yeah, I think my question is about scaling. It kind of goes back to kind of what you asked me earlier and I had a softer answer for, which is, you know, how do you scale intimacy and like impact while also growing the membership in the program if you do or can.
Nadine Nethery (32:01)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Hmm, that is, yeah.
It’s such a cool question because it’s, as you said, that fine line, right? Like it’s your framework, it’s your life work that you’re inviting people to be a part of, but then eventually you’re going to hit your capacity. So, so cool. Let me see. I have a guest in mind that I might invite onto the podcast to touch on.
Tiffany (32:26)
Yes.
days.
Nadine Nethery (32:41)
on this question. if I manage to lock her in, I’ll let you know and share it with you. Thank you.
Tiffany (32:46)
Okay, awesome. Yeah. And I love your podcasts. I just want to say that too. It’s so needed. It’s
so interesting. It’s like I’ve binged so many once I found it.
Nadine Nethery (32:56)
Thanks Tiffany, so kind.
Cool, that’s it for today. I would love to have listeners connect with you because I think there are so many listeners who are now going, yes, she’s talking directly to me, I need more white space. How can listeners connect with you and become a part of your universe?
Tiffany (33:15)
Yeah, YouTube is the best place to come and hang out with me. You can find me on YouTube as Dr. Tiffany Shelton and hopefully find a lot of value in the videos that I have there.
Nadine Nethery (33:27)
Awesome. I’ll link up the YouTube channel. Tiffany’s like a star at YouTube. I clearly haven’t worked it out yet, but yeah, she’s got so much valuable stuff on there. So make sure you hit subscribe. And yeah, thanks so much for coming on the show, Tiffany. So good. So interesting. I love your take on, yeah, programs, retention, and your down to earth approach to trying to diagnose things, which is so refreshing.
Tiffany (33:31)
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Nadine Nethery (33:53)
Cool, thank you.
And listeners, if you are not yet subscribed or have not yet followed the show, please do so because I have some other amazing guests coming up over the coming weeks. You don’t wanna miss an episode. And if you have a business buddy who could do with some customer experience advice, please share the podcast with them as well. And I will be back in your AirPods next week.
