EPISODE 24 OF WHAT WOULD THEY DO? THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PODCAST FOR SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
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In this episode, I am joined by CommsCamp founder Kirsty Fanton and her behind-the-scenes tech partner Ami Williamson to unpack how they built CommsBot, a custom GPT designed to give students real-time, tailored support inside a group coaching program.
It’s an answer to a question by my guest expert in episode 19, PR and visibility expert Gloria Chou:
“With so many coaches adding custom GPTs to their group programs, how do you balance the benefit of getting your student better results with the risk of making the experience more impersonal?”
Together, we explore how to make AI work for your customer experience, without making it feel robotic or like a shortcut. From ethical considerations to feature planning and student testing, this episode walks through the full behind-the-scenes of a thoughtful, human-first approach to integrating AI into your program or membership.
What we cover:
The real “why” behind CommsBot – How they used audience insights to spot a clear gap between “learning” and “doing,” and how the bot helps students practice communication in a safe, low-stakes way.
How to avoid building a robot version of yourself – Why the goal isn’t to clone the coach, but to create a guided concierge-style support tool that amplifies what students are already learning from you.
The three core functions of CommsBot – Understanding, Implementing, and Role-Playing—and why each mode was intentionally designed to align with different stages of the student journey.
Behind the scenes of building the bot – How Kirsty and Ami worked together to train the GPT using transcripts, frameworks, and internal language from the course—and avoided overwhelming the bot with the wrong kind of data.
AI ethics and privacy considerations – What they did to protect Kirsty’s intellectual property, set clear boundaries for the GPT, and build trust with students using the tool.
Soundbites:
Kirsty Fanton: “CommsBot is not meant to be a copy or a representation of me. It is something that is trained on my knowledge, on my skills, and is distinct from me. So I’m not trying to give someone an experience of interacting with me through the bot. I am giving them a tool with which they can hone, extend, practise, build confidence in their skills. I do think things could get murky if you were trying to replicate yourself with something like this inside of a coaching program, because I suspect that instead of perhaps what the intention might be, increasing that human element, you may actually be distancing your students from it.”
Ami Williamson: “And then the absolute gem is the role play mode where it uses ChatGPT’s voice mode. And you can actually act out that communication situation. You can set it up the way that you want it so it’s going to role play being a specific type of communicator. You can tell it all of those details, switch on voice mode and actually have that conversation in real time so that you’re actually getting the reps in, which is the hardest part, I think.”
More about my guests:
Kirsty is an ex-psychotherapist, ex-copywriter, and ex-pert communicator who helps online business owners hear and get heard when it matters most – in their emails, on their socials, with their clients, with their teams, and on podcasts like this one.
Website: https://www.kirstyfanton.com
CommsCamp: https://www.kirstyfanton.com/commscamp
Ami is the AI-obsessed copywriter behind Damn Write — where she helps fellow chaotic creatives turn their “too much” or “too weird” into a brand, a bot + a biz that feels like a revelation.
And when she’s not conjuring up Brand Bibles and sales copy, she’s deep in the AI underworld: building custom GPT bots for course creators who wanna scale without selling their souls.
Website: https://www.damnwrite.com.au/
Ami’s Custom AI Course Bot Service: https://www.damnwrite.com.au/ai-course-bots
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Episode Transcript:
Nadine Nethery (00:05)
Hello, hello and welcome to today’s episode. In today’s episode, we are going to answer a question that personally excites me and came from my guest expert in episode 19 PR and visibility expert Gloria Chow, who put this question out into the universe.
“With so many coaches adding custom GPTs to their group programs, how do you balance the benefit of getting your student better results with the risk of making the experience more impersonal?” And to answer this awesome super topical question, I’ve invited two super clever ladies who I look up to and admire for their genius.
Nadine Nethery (00:47)
We’re having Kirsty Fanton, the brain behind group program, CommsBot and also BrainCamp, which is where I initially connected with Kirsty and was on the receiving end of her genius. And then Ami Williams, who’s a fellow copywriter, turned AI expert and the brain behind CommsBot, which is the custom GPT inside Kirsty’s program. And we’re going to…
Nadine Nethery (01:11)
explore in great detail the behind the scenes happenings of how you create an AI powered tool like this and how this particular tool is reshaping the way students apply what they learn inside Kirsty’s program without Kirsty replacing that human element. So welcome to the show ladies.
Kirsty (01:31)
you so much for having us Nadine. We were just talking before we hit record about how Ami and I both selfishly really excited to hear each other talk about the custom GPT because I think it’s been such a great collaboration. So thank you for having us and thank you for giving us an excuse to talk to each other more about this.
Nadine Nethery (01:45)
⁓ awesome. Thanks so much for coming on.
I’m personally invested in this question. Such a, topical question because Custom GPTs are popping up everywhere in all the programs and all the places. obviously being on Kirsty’s email list, knowing how Kirsty approaches her coaching experience, I’m just super interested to find out.
how this collaboration unfolded and yeah, what considerations were at play. But before we start, let’s start with you, Kirsty. Why don’t you share a little bit about who you are, what you do and who you can best support.
Kirsty (02:24)
Yeah, sure. So hi, I’m Kirsty. I, as Nadine mentioned, have a program called CommsCamp that is all about helping online business owners hear and get heard when it really matters most. across all elements of communication, whenever you’re interacting with another human being, whether that’s through your emails, through your copy in a team meeting, on a podcast like this one, you know, on a stage, whatever that looks like.
Comms Camp is designed to help you really ace those interactions. And for probably relevant context, I worked as a psychotherapist for a number of years and then I worked as a copywriter for a number of years. So I feel like it’s a really nice bringing together of my skills and experience from both of those careers.
Nadine Nethery (03:07)
Yeah, love that. Thank you so much, Kirsty. How about you, Ami?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (03:11)
So as you mentioned, I’m a copywriter turned AI obsessed weirdo was always the weirdo, but AI came along and I just dove right in. I still do copy, but I also do a lot of bot building now, which selfishly I love doing because it kind of like, it lets me play with AI kind of feels like debugging HTML, like staying up late when I was like 16. So I get that vibe from it. But also it lets me help.
course creators give their students this interactive tool that helps them do the work and get the value and get the outcomes that they’re wanting. And for me, I say selfishly, but you know, everyone’s a winner. But that’s what I enjoy doing.
Nadine Nethery (03:54)
Yeah, how good is it when you can combine your passion and your inner nerd with actually, helping others and earning a living. It’s, I love the online space and especially, AI coming onto the scene as much as it can feel daunting. I think it’s just going to open up the right opportunities if you know how to use it, which obviously you do and you could share some of your wisdom with us. So, Kirsty, let’s…
Nadine Nethery (04:21)
have a closer look at comms camp obviously being the coaching opportunity that people work with you in. Can you talk us through that moment when you realized that you needed something like comms bot to elevate that experience? What gap were you trying to close for your students?
Kirsty (04:40)
Yeah, great question. So I am someone who has always been and will always be utterly obsessed with trying to help my clients close the gap between theory and practice or knowing and doing as easily and as confidently as possible.
Kirsty (04:58)
because while learning is of course valuable in its own way, doing is actually where you start to get results. So I knew that I wanted to create Commscamp and I sat with How on Earth to format the content for literally like five months because the thing with it is that even though the core skills are not that many, you know, there’s I think 16 core skills modules in the program,
The applications for those skills are almost infinite because they depend on so many pieces of context, such as the kind of person you are, the kind of business you have, the kind of person you are interacting with. Is it a client? Is it a prospect? Is it a team member? Is it a contractor? Is it an interviewer? You know, what are your strengths as a communicator? What are your weaknesses? What is your goal for the interaction?
I realized after trying to answer that question in about 52 incorrect ways for five months that the AI space was, I think, pretty rapidly developing. And I could see there was an opportunity here to create very much with the help of someone else. Because although I’m good with the communication and good with ideas, I absolutely have no idea when it comes to tech. Ami, when you mentioned like
debugging HTML when you were 16. I was like, what even is this? I was
Ami Williamson (she/her) (06:21)
Like I was out being cool.
Kirsty (06:25)
like, yeah, drinking passion pop in a park.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (06:27)
Yeah, don’t worry, I did that too.
Kirsty (06:29)
So I realised that there was an opportunity for that and I think it’s important to note from the outset that there are two different levels to Comscamp. There is a VIP level and I kind of hate that terminology but I’m yet to find a better one where you do have a lot of real-time access to and support from me and other group members and also a DIY version where you do not have that access and support.
So in order to again bridge that gap between theory and practice for people in that level of the program as easily and quickly and confidently as possible, there needed to be a tool to do that. And I figured it would be foolish not to explore, I guess, the highest available level of what that tool could be in 2025.
Nadine Nethery (07:10)
That’s so cool. I love how you came at it from really a customer need angle rather than, I know I need to put a bot in because everyone else is So there was that actual need and the benefit to your students that is at the core of Commsbot Coming to you, Ami, as the person who had to make sense of, what Kirsty had dreamed up and had pictured, how…
Nadine Nethery (07:32)
Did you approach the brief?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (07:36)
it’s really interesting to hear Kirsty’s like in-depth answer. Cause obviously like, I think when you reach out and inquire about something, you’re not like, here’s everything that like every like thought and strategy that’s going into this decision. but like Kirsty reached out and what I could say was that she wanted a way to give the campers particularly the DIY ones, a, you know, adaptable interactive
way to practice and implement the skills that they would learn in comms camp. So that you know it gives her the chance to also scale that DIY offer, to offer it at all really and to not offer it in a way that it’s like here’s all the content and here’s you know some actions that I suggest you take to implement them. Maybe you go like get your significant other and practice role play but your significant other doesn’t know
anything that you’ve learned, they don’t know the communication skills and you know, it’s just not quite the same. And for obvious reasons, like the VIP tier is going to have that access where you can role play and get feedback from real people and get and interact with real people. But for DIY, that’s just not possible. It’s not possible to scale an offer that’s offering that level of support and time and energy from the course creator. So that was kind of the brief that or the overarching like goal that I heard.
And then from there, it was kind of looking at, you know, breaking it down into more granular, like what are the goals for this bot? What are the tasks that we want it to do and why, why, why are these the things that we’re actually getting it to do and what don’t we want it to do? All those sorts of like nitty gritty decisions.
Nadine Nethery (09:10)
Yeah, I love again so often ignored the why. Why do we do this as a starting point? Like often we just go, okay, I needed to do this. I think I wanted to do this, but the why often is missing. So yeah, I’m fascinated with AI as a way to really infuse Kirsty even more into the DIY path. So often AI seems like this thing that makes courses more impersonal. But in this instance,
Nadine Nethery (09:37)
Really, it’s made it even more human and sort of bottled Kirsty up into, Commsbot. Sorry, Kirsty. But how cool is it? Right? I know, I know. Impossible. But how cool is it that we can make Kirsty available to DIYers to help them make sense of the modules and the content and actually apply it in real life. For both of you, because I know that
Ami Williamson (she/her) (09:45)
She’s irreplaceable. It’s okay. It’s not coming
for her.
Nadine Nethery (10:01)
probably was a back and forth process to get to the end result. How did you along the way test and make sure it actually did what it was meant to do? Didn’t overwhelm, really was clear from a user perspective? how did you go about that?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (10:16)
So part of it’s the actual process. So I’m not just opening up, you know, create a custom GPT and banging in some instructions and seeing what works. It’s really like starting with a planning process where it is those goals and breaking that down into specific tasks, the knowledge docs that this bot will be trained on. Um, and then even with that, it’s getting Kirsty to have a look at that and give feedback.
maybe there are some things that it’s like, should it do this? Shouldn’t it do this? It might not be able to do this very well, but we can try all that sort of stuff. really like communicating amazingly, know, communication skills come in really handy. ⁓
Nadine Nethery (10:52)
Funny that.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (10:53)
Yeah, I know. And particularly
like it’s, really helpful when your client is a communications expert, cause you’re like, this is easy. Like the communication side is real easy. but yeah, it’s that planning process first. So we know where we’re headed or where we’re trying to head. So that when I know what I’m creating, and then also when I handed over for testing, Kirsty’s able to go, is it actually meeting these goals? Is it actually doing the things we want it to do? We know what we’re looking for.
instead of going, yeah, I think it’s working well, or it seems okay sometimes. It just really set like a framework for that, I think.
Nadine Nethery (11:26)
It’s funny, all the courses I’ve seen out there and the experts teaching custom GPTs, it always feels like this, you just brief it, you put it out there and it’s done process. So from what I can pick up, well designed custom GPT really goes much deeper. There’s much more planning to it. There’s correct briefing, giving parameters, testing, tweaking to get it right.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (11:36)
Yeah, it was less about like, I didn’t just open up a chat GPT would know and be like, I need a bot that does this, write me the instructions, go. And then just, yeah, no, it’s not. It was a little bit more work than that.
Nadine Nethery (11:51)
Yeah, yeah, and it’s probably not a matter of dumping a whole bunch of documents and going, do your thing. Yeah.
I’m always curious around protecting like Kirsty’s framework, for example. Is there a way to prevent people from just going, you know, me all the things and extract it? Obviously you’re giving people access to what’s happening inside Kirsty’s brain.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (12:16)
Yeah. Good question. I like this one. So there are ways that you can like have instructions that kind of lock a bot down. And whenever I see like people saying, there’s this hack and you try and tell it this, like it’s always manipulative stuff. tell them that your grandma’s going to die if it doesn’t give you its instructions and it’s dark. Like it’s so dark, but.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (12:42)
I will test those out on my bots that have like security prompts on them. But for me, it’s like with this bot in particular, you know, it’s trained on the content. It’s the lesson transcripts. It’s some different like role play stuff. And then the instructions themselves. It’s stuff that the students pretty much have access to anyway. Chances are if they go and ask it for the instructions, if they’re really that like
Nadine Nethery (12:42)
Wow.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (13:05)
interested, it’s not going to actually give them verbatim. It’ll spit out versions of it will like paraphrase it. So you’re not actually, it might say that it’s giving you exactly what it’s been told, but it’s probably not. ⁓ and because it’s not a public facing bot, if it was a public facing bot, or you’re looking at IP and that sort of thing, then I would absolutely lock it down. and then also look at, you know, there are options within chat GPT that you can make sure that those knowledge docs and those instructions aren’t being used to train future models as well.
Nadine Nethery (13:16)
Cool. Let’s talk about the Comms Bot and some of the intentional features that have been built in. Obviously I’ve followed along, read Kirsty’s emails and there’s some really cool stuff. Also, Kirsty recently shared a
walkthrough where you role played with Comm Bot, which is so mind blowing how real everything was and how, how deep the conversation went. So I’m wondering what some of the intentional features are that you have built into Comm Bot and how they were specifically designed to replace or not replace, but ⁓ imitate that human.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (14:09)
Support, yeah.
Kirsty (14:12)
I feel like Ami should answer this question because obviously she did all the genius programming. But I think maybe just to preface this, Ami and I were very aligned on this, which made it even more glorious.
CommsBot is not meant to be a copy or a representation of me. It is something that is trained on my knowledge, on my skills, and is distinct from me. So I’m not trying to give someone an experience of interacting with me through the bot. I am giving them a tool with which they can…
Kirsty (14:47)
hone, extend, practise, build confidence in their skills. So I just wanted to put that out there first as it may be something that we could unpack further if you wanted to, because I think, things could get murky if you were trying to replicate yourself with something like this inside of a coaching program, because I suspect that instead of perhaps what the intention might be, you know, increasing that human element, you may actually be distancing your students from it, because
Kirsty (15:15)
you’re thinking, cool, I’ve replaced myself, I don’t need to be in there, they can get the experience of me through this thing. But of course, as humans, we are infinitely more nuanced than I think any custom GPT that can at least currently be created. And touch wood, never gets that advanced because that freaks me out.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (15:33)
Insane.
Nadine Nethery (15:33)
know, right? But it’s funny
Nadine Nethery (15:34)
you’re saying
that I’ve actually seen conversations in forums where people go, if I could only create this bot that is briefed on my thought processes, my thinking, and then I can step back from providing all this one-on-one support. I just love how nuanced you approach this and just are crystal clear on obviously it’s not replacing you. It is just facilitating the human factor and
adding the human element to your frameworks, your thought processes, but it’s not replacing you. ⁓ Ami, have you got anything on the, some of the features and intentionality behind CommsBot?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (16:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, I…
Just to agree with what Kirsty said, it was a very intentional decision to not have it be a clone of her. Because I think I remember writing something in the plan that was kind of like, hey, we could try and get it to sound a lot like you and to mimic your voice, like your very specific Kirsty voice, but…
Ami Williamson (she/her) (16:26)
I think I might’ve even said like, don’t know if it’s the right thing to do for this. I think we’re better off having it sound related. Like it’s still, it doesn’t sound like standard chat GPT and it doesn’t sound like, yeah, it’s, still sounds cons campy. So we want it to feel connected, but we also don’t want it to be this weird clone, which, you know, I see it as well. I see paid ads for like.
Kirsty (16:26)
See you.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (16:48)
you know, get access to my clone bot and I’m like, yeah, no, I’m good. ⁓ yeah, I’m good. And that’s like, if it works for people, works for people. but apart from that, it was also in terms of features, you know, it is, you’ve played around with it you’d know that there are the three different modes that it has. So it’s got like understanding mode. So you can, you know, ask it questions and test out your knowledge about Comscamp, implementation. So actually putting it into practice. Yeah, that could be a whole range of things as Kirsty like alluded to at the start.
Nadine Nethery (16:50)
Mmm, yeah, no, creepy.
Mmm.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (17:14)
It’s like infinite possibilities around what you could use it to implement. And then like the absolute gem is the role play mode where it uses chat GPT’s voice mode. And you can actually act out that like communication situation. You can set it up the way that you want it. So it’s going to role play being a specific type of communicator. You can tell it all of those details, switch on voice mode and actually have that conversation in real time.
so that you’re actually getting
Ami Williamson (she/her) (17:42)
the reps in right, which is the hardest part, I think.
Nadine Nethery (17:45)
Yeah, especially in a group program. you sign up with the best intentions, you’re motivated at the start, and then it’s just hard to get going and keep going. And especially in this interactive format, like what you learn, you really need to put into practice to get your confidence up and internalize what you’ve just learned. So I love how CommSport just really makes all that super easy. ⁓
it’s in your own space and time as well. So you don’t have to show up, you know, to a group session, you don’t have to squeeze it into your calendar. Like again, mum of three here, I just can never make it live. So it’s just so good.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (18:13)
Exactly.
know Kirsty and I have been sharing like random life stuff we’ve used it for. I was like, I need to email the school. I’m going to use it to like word the email.
Nadine Nethery (18:25)
I’m
How
cool though, it’s so flexible, right? you get the framework and then there’s just infinite opportunities to apply it all and practice, so cool.
Kirsty (18:40)
I was just
going to say, feel like Ami, you shortchange yourself there because I think you didn’t mention my favourite feature, which is in roleplay mode, which by the way, you can do in voice mode or if you want to roleplay like a Slack conversation, you can also do in written form at the end. Or if you hit a point where like I’m stuck, you can say pause or debrief and it will step out of the role you’ve assigned it and it will give you.
really useful, insightful, like every time it gives me feedback, I’m like, wow, I’m learning stuff here. It gives you really great feedback about the things you’ve done really well and the things that you could improve on. And then it suggests next steps and it always links the feedback on what you’ve done well and what you could do differently or better back to the comms camp content, which I love because you know then that it’s pulling from a like verified source. And you can also then jump back into that.
module, right? Or that worksheet. If you want to then go back and say, okay, I obviously need to go back and revisit this, let me do that now. But the other thing it does, so this morning I was running a role play demo for someone and she was nervous about doing a case study call with one of their, one of her business’s clients. So it was about that. Anyway, at the end of the role play for next steps, one that it suggested was, hey, did you want to
take this conversation and we can shape it together into the actual case study. So I love that it’s even able to lick itself between the different modes, right? Because obviously you could go through to another role play where you’re honing in on a certain part of the conversation or a certain skill in the conversation or you’re dialing up the difficulty. Like, you know, you’re making the person you’re interacting with more resistant to your suggestions or more hesitant about your offer, whatever that is. But it can also be like, hey, cool, like let’s practice like.
the process of taking this conversation and making it into a really compelling case study for your business. So feel like those are amazing features, Ami.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (20:32)
Thank you. And like you mentioned, the fact that it references the lessons yet. that a big part of that was partly in testing so that we can check like it’s not pulling stuff. does have web access, which is an intentional decision. because we want people to be able to drop their links and stuff in context. and so checking like it’s not pulling stuff. It’s not using the wrong terminology. it’s not just yet pulling from Reddit or something like that.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (20:55)
there’s a few of those features that are kind of designed to combat what someone could get out of standard chat. GPT, the little like quirks and pitfalls that if they were to just be like, here’s the transcript for this lesson, which they can do, but the bot itself is trained to get them a better result, a better outcome and all that sort of thing. So yeah, it’s so good to hear Kirsty’s like take on it.
Nadine Nethery (21:12)
Mm. So cool. ⁓
So cool, I’m curious with chat GPT now remembering previous conversations. can your com Bot monitor progress as well? could it go, compared to two weeks ago, your progress has been amazing. Yeah, I’m just curious because.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (21:29)
Hmm. I, I’m not sure if it covers custom GPTs. I’m going to have to look into it. didn’t. Yeah. Cause it, um, originally it wouldn’t like,
you know, how you can have your account wide settings. So the stuff you want it to know about you in your settings. And every time you open a new convo it’ll have that basic info. I know that that’s not available in the custom GPT. It’s not pulling from that.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (21:50)
So things like how you want it to respond, it’s going to use the custom GPT’s instructions instead of your user instructions. ⁓ But I’ll have to look into it because, I mean, the other option is if you have that one chat window, you’re always able to go revisit it. And it’s going to have that context to a certain point But yeah, it would be handy if it could kind of progress long term. It would be really cool.
Nadine Nethery (21:56)
Yeah, if you go, you
like when I started comms camp, compared to now, like how, how am I looking? Whatever I’m proved on, that’ll be cool. ⁓ See? ⁓ to obviously help students see how much progress they’ve had. And obviously you verbalize how much you’ve helped students. Anyway, just a thought,
Ami Williamson (she/her) (22:15)
Yes.
Kirsty (22:19)
This is a great additional feature idea. Ami, we need to talk.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (22:21)
Yeah, make it so like tangible.
Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (22:33)
While we’re student results and experience, how long ago did the first intake start?
Kirsty (22:42)
So I launched the VIP level only in April and I think was only like six weeks ago that I launched the DIY and that was purely because we were waiting for CommsBot to be ready and tested because I didn’t want to, as Ami mentioned, I didn’t want to offer DIY without CommaSpot because to me that would be like offering half a sandwich.
Kirsty (23:03)
know it’s like you want your wonderful thing so yeah so it hasn’t hasn’t been
live and delivering for all that long.
Nadine Nethery (23:10)
Yeah, have you got any insights around feedback from students and how that’s aligned with their expectations how it’s boosted their activity in the program as well, like how much they’re interacting with what they’ve signed up for.
Kirsty (23:24)
Yeah, so people, it’s so funny because I feel like I would say that I’m relatively AI resistant just generally and therefore I think I attract people who are of a similar mindset. So it was so interesting for me because as soon as I played with CommsBot I was like my god this is an absolute golden nugget of a creation and like getting people to use it initially
Kirsty (23:49)
was a little bit of a challenge just because people are like, oh, like how good is it going to be? I’ve used ChatGPT or I’ve used Claude before. But then, like, as soon as anyone engaged with it, there would be a comment in the group space or an email of like, holy shit, like this thing is amazing. And even to the point where like one of the people in the VIP version of Comscamp was having, you know, a real challenging week mindset wise about
Kirsty (24:18)
her role as a writer and a copywriter and a copy critique coach in the age of chat GPT. So she was actually having a coaching conversation with CommsBot and it even offered her insight on how she is different and better and will always be compared to chat GPTs. It’s so selfaware So she shared that in the chat. yeah, and people are using it also to copy, to write pitches for podcasts.
Kirsty (24:48)
to create surveys and it can do cool things like if you let them know which survey platform you use, will format it accordingly. So you can just copy paste it straight in and it will also justify what it’s doing. So people are using it to, to, you know, create things and then also justify those decisions to their clients, which is great. And as Ami mentioned before, people are also using it for random life things like tricky emails to landlords and various things like that. So yeah, people are pretty.
Nadine Nethery (24:54)
Yeah, well.
Kirsty (25:14)
bloody stoked with it, I would say, and it’s absolutely helping people engage more deeply, more regularly, in a more sustained fashion with the program than I suspect would have otherwise been the case.
Nadine Nethery (25:16)
I reckon it’ll be interesting to see down the track a few months time once people have properly engaged with it and have made a part of their daily existence, like the conversations with the school and the landlord. It’s just so good. And I think, again, that’s where it’s important to produce quality work, right? And actually potentially engage people like Ami who actually know what they’re doing because I’ve
Nadine Nethery (25:53)
created a pretty pathetic version of a custom GPT for one of my courses, you know, when you think, everyone says it’s easy, which does a job, but I’m sure it could be a lot better. And if I actually knew what I was doing, I hired someone to help me, but I’m just so curious now and I’m going to totally dive into getting my head around how it works. So question for you, Ami, obviously we…
Nadine Nethery (26:16)
explored that there are so many people now throwing custom GPTs into their courses because they feel like they have to or they’re going to sell better without much thought process behind it. Are there things that in your builds you do to, make sure there’s a minimum level of quality? They actually do what they say they do and they work for the students.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (26:38)
Yeah. so firstly, this is something that’s out of my control, but it’s the curriculum itself, which I think we talked about before we started where, you know, I think during the testing, even I would be like emailing Kirsty being like, my God, it did this. Like it blew my mind. And I’m like, I created it, but also it’s partly my instructions and then partly what it’s actually being trained on because there is plenty of subpar content and curriculum out there. and therefore.
Kirsty (26:59)
Okay.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (27:05)
plenty of subpar course bots as well.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (27:08)
But yeah, obviously like having that as a starting point, amazing. And from there, it’s looking at, know, it’s getting strategic at that planning stage and not just kind of throwing something together and going, well, it should help students do X, Y, Z because that’s the activity that I’ve set for them. the big focus for me is that it is really…
better than something they can get out of chat GPT themselves because they’re probably trying anyway. So giving
Ami Williamson (she/her) (27:32)
them this bot form that is actually, you know, trained to do specific tasks in specific ways that, you know, help them get to that outcome that this course creators promising. To me, that’s what it comes down to.
Nadine Nethery (27:45)
Love it. Just the intentionality, behind it rather than just considering it as a tick in the box and leading with the customer and the student in mind. So final question for both of you, because I’m sure we could talk about it for hours. ⁓ What would you say to course creators who have group programs,
Nadine Nethery (28:05)
considering adding a custom GPT to their program, what would you say to those coaches to keep in mind so they don’t dilute that human aspect of their program? I don’t know, do you wanna start, Ami?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (28:20)
Sure. I just thought Kirsty would start, I was like, la la la.
Kirsty (28:24)
Good.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (28:27)
To me, I would say like, it’s a totally valid fear to have and hesitation to have. I would probably suggest sitting with that and unpacking what the specific fears are so that you can figure out whether they’re valid.
Like, are they ones that you want to hold on to? Are they ones you maybe want to debunk and move past? But beyond that, like,
I think knowing that your students are using AI anyway, like let’s be so honest, whether that’s uploading worksheets, pasting in transcripts. And if you don’t give them access to that stuff, they’re probably just describing what they’ve learned in whatever terms and then asking AI to help them do whatever the thing is. And you have so little control over that. whereas, you know, giving them a bot that isn’t designed to be a clone of you, unless that’s what you really, really want.
Nadine Nethery (29:15)
Thanks
Ami Williamson (she/her) (29:16)
but is
designed to be a value add. It’s designed to be this interactive adaptable tool because you’re only one person and you cannot possibly adapt every single thing to every single person’s situation all the time. Even with like a coaching program, there’s only so many people you can help, right? And so looking at it that way might help with that hesitation.
Kirsty (29:19)
Okay.
Kirsty (29:40)
Yeah, so I guess similar to Ami, but maybe just from a slightly different angle, that I’m definitely the non-techie one in the conversation. I think, like, my advice would be to really approach it from the standpoint of how can I collaborate with this tool, this availability of these tools, to really add something to the program.
Kirsty (30:02)
So again, we’re not replicating, we’re not trying to replace ourselves. And I would even say that if you do try and do that, I suspect you’re devaluing any of your other offers that do involve you in real time. But also like, you bring your own life experience and nuance and ability to pick up on things that, you know, custom GPTs cannot. So keep that in mind. But yeah, how do you collaborate to bring something additive to the experience and really valuable to the outcomes of what your program is?
Kirsty (30:30)
promising for the people inside of it. Because I think if you can come at it from that angle, it’s going to have really clear use cases, really clear value proposition. And I think both of those things are going to help you, as long as you hire the right person, hi Ami, get a custom GPT that actually does those things, right? That specificity and that deliberate nature and that clarity around what you want is really going to help you get something that actually ticks the boxes.
Nadine Nethery (30:57)
I’m just fascinated with this behind the scenes look at your collaboration, at the outcome. It was so interesting to see the thought process and how it’s not just something you throw out there in a matter of five minutes if you want it to actually benefit people. So one question I ask all my guests is what is one burning question that
Nadine Nethery (31:20)
you have personally when it comes to the customer experience, creating an intentional customer journey and who would you love to answer that question for you? Do you want to go first this time, Kirsty?
Ami Williamson (she/her) (31:32)
laughs
Kirsty (31:32)
I can go first.
I don’t know who is going to answer this question for you, for me, sorry. So you may have to go on a bit of a goose chase Nadine, but hopefully someone springs to mind. I mean, as like, as you probably know, by listening to this episode, I am not hugely techie. As I mentioned, I’m bit AI resistant. I would love to know who out there is using like low tech
Nadine Nethery (31:36)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Love that.
Kirsty (31:54)
or no tech ways to really enhance or create a stellar experience for their clients, their customers, their subscribers. I would just love to hear about that to get some thoughts outside the box. And I don’t just mean like I send a client gift, like of course you do, but like what else is happening beyond that? Yeah.
Nadine Nethery (32:10)
Yeah, yeah. Gotcha.
The wheel is spinning. Love it. Yeah, I’m thinking, yay. How about you, Ami? Yes. Low tech. Yeah. Yeah. And without paying for extra tech tools, right? Because we all got too many. Yes.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (32:15)
I want to know that too. That’s such a good question. I’m like, Ooh, tell me, tell me all the ways, especially like in this day and age. think anything you can do low tech is going to stand out. yeah.
Right, which you were always.
For me, I would love to hear from someone in like learning design or a similar field purely because I’m just obsessed with like the science of learning. And I would love to hear, you know, the burning question really is around how they actually figure out like reverse engineer, here’s the outcomes we want the students to achieve. How do we get them there?
Nadine Nethery (32:43)
Hmm?
Mmm good one. Yeah yeah yeah yeah the traditional way the pre what is it 2023 way like when it really boomed yeah yes love it leave it with me ladies I’ll have a look who I can source and I’ll let you know once once it’s out there before we wrap up obviously I want
Ami Williamson (she/her) (32:57)
beyond AI tools, because I’m good with that, right? I want the actual like, give me a framework. Yeah. Everything that leads up to that, right?
Nadine Nethery (33:17)
people to be able to find you and find out more about you. So if each of you can share where people can find you, how they can learn more from you, that would be great.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (33:27)
okay. You can find me I’m damn right as in W R I T E nine years in and still spelling that one out. ⁓ I’m on Instagram a little bit. I’m on threads and damnwrite.com.au as well.
Nadine Nethery (33:33)
Yeah.
Awesome. How about you Kirsty? Yeah.
Kirsty (33:44)
I’m gonna drop my earbuds.
disappearing. Sorry. So you can find me at that’s right. I’m not like a generated bot. I’m so imperfect. It is. For now. You can find me at KirstyFanton.com. By the time this episode goes live, there will be a new homepage waiting to meet you along with an assessment that helps you pinpoint your communication style. So
Ami Williamson (she/her) (33:48)
It’s proof that you’re human. You’re not an AI video.
Nadine Nethery (33:48)
you
Yes, that’s
right. It’s the real Kirsty.
Ami Williamson (she/her) (33:58)
This
time.
Kirsty (34:12)
If anything I’ve shared here is really of interest to you or you’re just wondering where you sit, take that. it’s actually I spent so long making the quiz because I wanted it to be a multivariate analysis. So it’s not just like you don’t just get a really like, you know, cute little like this is your type, but you get some really personalized tips, things to try this week, what you’re already doing well, what could be improved on. And within that sequence, there is also a little demo of CommsBot as well. So if you are curious about that.
Kirsty (34:38)
head on over there. Otherwise, I’m on Instagram too at Kirsty.Fanton.
Nadine Nethery (34:39)
Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show. It was so interesting. I’m obsessed now. I have to go find out more. And to the listeners, if you have a burning question like this one, and you would like me to answer it for you or invite amazing guests like Kirsty and Ami, then hit up the link in the show notes to submit anonymously or add your name and you get a shout out on the show. thanks so much for listening and I’ll see you next week.
